Back from hospital

The surgery went well although it was certainly more painful than my
c-section was. I am really SORE. It gets better day by day. I don't
remember anything except being wheeled into the OR and the Vercett being given to me IV (gotta love the memory erasing powers of Vercett
). I awoke sore and very tired. Will and Lilith stayed awhile with me
till it was obvious that I was going to keep passing out. They awoke me
later that afternoon for a walk (you are required to do 6 walks a day
to prevent blood clots). The first walk I was leaning over the platform
walker and moaning. It was pretty pathetic to watch I am sure. By the
second walk, I was still leaning over the walker but I was doing much
better. By the second day, I wasn't even using the walker, just my
hospital friend MR. IV. I had a RN that I worked with at Saint
Anthony's every night that I was there and she was lovely. She hung out
in my room and talked to me and gave me lots of encouragement. It was
great to catch up. I was given a "Tummy Teddy" that is a super cute large firm Teddy
bear that wears a Rose Medical Center tee shirt and has a cute face, he
has to be so darn cute because you are expected to splint with him and
cough at least once every 15 minutes (splinting is when you hold
something
against your stomach or chest {if it is cardiac surgery} to brace it,
it is very painful. I was also expected to use the incentive spiromiter
once every 15 minutes while awake. Let me tell you, if you think you
are going to rest after this surgery, you are WRONG! The second day I
went down for my endoscopy where I had to drink "devil juice" (as a
friend
described it to me before hand) and take a standing chest x-ray, then
sip the "devil juice" (which actually tasted like the worst cherry
cough syrup you can imagine) and stand in front of this moving table
(yes the table moves, they might not tell you this and in your Morphine
induced stupor
you might just think it's you thinking it is moving ever so slightly
till it lays you back!) while they film the devil juice going through
your pouch and new intestine. It is kinda neat to watch. They had me
take
4 sips to get different views, I only felt nauseous when the table
leaned me back for one of the views. Then I went back to my room
hugging my Tummy Teddy
the whole way, I must have looked pretty silly in that wheel chair.
They brought a cot for Will but he ended up going home each evening
because Lilith would start to cry and beg for breasty , which I couldn't
give due to the narcotics. Did I mention I was pumping and dumping my
milk every 3 hours in addition to everything else? She loved all of the
attention from the staff though. When we were waiting to go into
surgery, Lilith was laying on me breastfeeding when Dr. Snyder came in
to
talk to me. He looked at Lilith (Who was smiling and flirting with him
like she does with everyone)and said, "You are reminding me to be
especially careful
with your mommy aren't you". I took a super small picture of Lilith and
taped it to my forearm so I could look at it when I came out of OR and
honestly for others to see so yes, they knew I had someone depending on
me. I was expected to drink 30ml every 15 minutes while awake to keep
hydrated.
They had to keep me on the IV an extra day because I wasn't doing too
well at this. You are expected to alternate water with a protein drink.
You may think 30mls isn't much but when you consider that your new pouch only holds 1oz, you have to realize that you are sipping that 30mls. They gave me a Carmel flavored protein drink that you can get from Walgreen's.com called optisource. It wasn't too bad. I also was given some Isopure (available at GNC)
that I already purchased and have some here at home. You are REQUIRED
to get in 60 grams of protein a day. This is super important for me
since I am nursing.
I was finally allowed to take a shower the second
day and it felt wonderful. I looked at my incisions for the first time
after my shower. I have 6 small incisions. One has a jp
drain coming out of it that will be pulled at my one week follow up
appointment. On the opposite side was one with a primrose drain in it
that was pulled late my second day and it didn't hurt at all, I am
pretty sure the JP is going to hurt allot more that it did. The other 4
are sealed with dermabond. I am sore mostly on the left side (where most of the work was done)
but I am very pleased at the size of the incisions and the general lack
of swelling and bruising . Everyone praises Dr. Snyder as being the
best, guess it must be true. I also had a central line in my neck that
they pulled right before discharge (painless). I pulled my own Foley
catheter (with permission) on the second day before my shower. You are
given a huge handbook with post op instructions and locations of the
REQUIRED post op nutrition class. You go to one at one week post op (starting purees),
one
month post op(starting soft solids then solids) and one year post
op(regulating portions of regular food). You are also STRONGLY advised
to start attending a support group. The list of several support groups
are included in the book. You also have to do follow up appointments with Dr. Snyder at, 1 week, 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 9 weeks, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, then yearly.
You might ask for some (or hide some everyday so they bring you more) disposable medicine cups and some drain sponges
(a specialized bandage that goes around your JP). You need to change it
once a day and drain and compress it when it gets full. The medicine
cups are great for the measuring and recording the drainage from your jp
but also for sipping protein and water from. I am sipping "Protein
Zone" by Naked. It is the best tasting protein drink I have had so far.
It also has 38 grams of protein in 15.2 fluid oz, meaning a little less
than 2 of them a day would get all of your protein in. Believe me, when
you are sipping on something for hours, the more protein it has per
ounce
the better (the less you have to sip). For part of my required walking
to day, we went to Whole Foods, gotta love my hubby who suggested this. Shopping, even in some pain is still kinda fun. We bought, Natures Plus "source of Life" women's liquid "liquilicious natural berry flavor" liquid multi vitamin. You have to be on a multi vitamin for the rest of your life along with a sub lingual or liquid B-12, and a liquid or chewable calcium (I bought MRM orange- vanilla flavor calcium- magnesium- zinc liquid and Solaray vitamin B-12 2000mcg sub lingual). Okay I have some tips about the "liquilicious natural berry flavor multi vitamin"
, even though the dose is only 2 table spoons... It should be taken
SLOWLY! And don't look at it if you can get someone else to pour and
measure it out for you, do so. It if the endoscope liquid was Devil
Juice, then this is the WRATH OF HELL JUICE! It is so awful to look at
and to drink, it also made me have cramping after I drank the 2
tablespoons at once. I don't think I can drink this multi vitamin for
the rest of my life (I bought a 30 day supply and that is going to be
bad enough), I will be looking for a better brand very soon. I
purchased several books on weight loss surgery from Amazon.com. The best one I have had a chance to read so far has been, "Weight loss Surgery For Dummies". It is funny yet informative. I also purchased several post weight loss surgery cookbooks. It will be awhile before I can try those. I have both of Carnies Wilson's
books too. I am getting a bike seat for Lilith for my birthday. Our
neighborhood is great for stroller walks and bike rides. There are
several parks near by also. I unfortunately cannot go swimming for 6
weeks. We had been going once a week to the local recreation center to
swim. It has 2 indoor water slides, a little kids water slide, a lazy
river ride, a family hot tub (with a lower temperature than the adult
one), a water park, a water fall, and family changing cabanas. We took
a cheap disposable water camera last time we went but not one of the
photos came out. I will try again though in 6 weeks. Lilith has a baby
crab boat that we take her on the lazy river ride in and she loves it.
I will feel so much better and more confident at the pool and at the
mommy and me play dates now. There are only a few (like 2)larger moms
in the mommy and me group and I don't want to spend the whole time
sitting and visiting with them (although they are very nice) instead of
going down the slides with Lilith and playing chase with her now that
she can crawl, etc. I wanted to have this surgery before she was
walking so I could keep up with her and so I would be fit enough to be
active with her, not a couch- fetch it for me mom. I am so glad that I
was able to.
There are some things that I will have to give up
forever (rice, sugars, popcorn, fried foods,etc) but being healthy and
fit for my daughter is worth it all. Will has been super supportive. He
has been taking care of Lilith and bringing me my water and protein when
I am napping (you are pretty tired after this surgery for days I am
told). He was able to take a week off to be with me and to help with
Lilith, thank Goodness. I won't be able to lift Lilith till next week,
about the time he goes back to work. I am breasty feeding her while laying on my side (I cant lay her across my abdomen
yet). I took before measurements and photos and plan of keeping track
of my losses. They say you can expect to loose 60% of you total excess
weight in the first 6 weeks! But it isn't a quick fix, you still have
to exercise and follow their dietary/vitamin requirements for the rest
of your life. You will get very sick if you don't. This isn't my
unicorn, I know it won't solve all of my problems but it will make me
healthier and is a tool that when properly used, will make it easier
for me to loose down to and maintain a healthy weight. You have to
always have protein first and never have sugary things again. Breads
and white pastas are no-nos too. Rice can get stuck and require surgery
to remove. It is a drastic surgery and I wouldn't have had it if I
thought I could do it on my own, I can't. I have lost weight many times
and been thin many times but never by healthy means and I have to
starve or exercise like a crazy person to maintain. I know that too is
unhealthy. I have someone else depending on me and watching me. I want
her to have a happy healthy mom, not a fat, sad one. If I have to go
through this to make that happen, then it is all worth it, although I
will miss Diet Coke and carbonated drinks every once in awhile.

On a negative note......I was afraid at first to post anything about my
having this surgery because I knew certain individuals would
poo poo all over it due to their jealousy and insecurity . I thought
about it and the many caring, supportive, and emotionally stable people
that do read my blog and decided that this is exactly the type of thing
I should be writing about. It is something that is life changing and
very important to me, why shouldn't I write about it. It wouldn't be so
bad if I didn't have to hear what these people say but I do. I guess
they don't realize that they have screwed over enough people that this
is bound to happen. These individuals have always underestimated the intelligence of others, they believe
they are the only ones that are devious enough to collect passwords and
forward e-mails. They never think that other people realize that when
someone is running a person down to you, they are probably running you
down to someone else. When you read this persons blog it is always the
same, every few months they screw someone out of time, money, trust,
etc. Then the post comes that says, "poor me, I am the victim here,
everyone needs to mind their own business, I had to do what I did,
these other people are lying (or overreacting or both), I have to think
of my family (myself, my home, etc), why does everyone want to hurt
poor me, why doesn't anyone believe me, fuck all of you, etc." Then
comes the, "I've really changed post", "I am working on becoming a
better (friend, parent, wife, person, sociopath, etc), I am going to
start, (going to school, paying my bills, medication, a new job,
cleaning my house, getting therapy, etc), I am sorry for what I did,
really honestly, I have learned not to do this again, etc." Then if the
person that they have wronged doesn't magically forgive them, they are
a jerk (I am actually being much nicer than they are) and they run them
down and try to harass the other person while getting their family to
write nasty things about the other person in the pretense of
"defending" our friend the victim . If this persons family really cared
about them you would think they would say, look this keeps happening in
your life, with different people, maybe you need to ask yourself why
you keep allowing this to happen or what you are doing to cause this.
Because the only constant in this is you. But they never do, maybe it
isn't worth the effort. At least when I am acting stupid or getting
caught up in something negative, my family and husband tell me so. The
saddest part is at least I was honest and have been every time this
person continues to try to contact me, even pretending to be her
daughter, I severed all contact with her years ago and have stated
multiple times that I never want her to be apart of my life again. I
truly am sorry that she is so lonely and her life is so boring that she
still clings to this blog for material to write nasty things about me.
I was honest too when I said that she isn't even the same person that
was once one of my very close friends, but hey, people change, (and
sometimes not for the better)and grow apart. That's okay because it
leaves room for new friends that are on the same level as you and have
similar interests as you do(not just inernet porn or sex, unless that is all you have to offer as a friend). I do make all of this public because I
don't want to encourage any personal contact (although even knowing
that I will publish anything openly never stops this person from harassing
me) and because unfortunately, as long as this person keeps running me
down (and I keep having to hear about it),and trying to stalk me, it is
an unfortunate part of my life. I am writing this not to encourage any
form of contact or to remind this person of their need for drama, but to
make them realize that, just because someone says or acts like all is
forgiven, doesn't mean it really is. Maybe when some one has forgiven
you and you think you have sucked them back into your cycle of lets
stir up some "shit" every few weeks because your lives are really that
boring or maybe your cable is cut off again and you need some
excitement because you have nothing in your life to be excited or happy
about, because you spend too much time trying to cause drama and
looking at other peoples lives instead of looking at your own...maybe
it is you that is the one that has been sucked in and you are the one
being "played". There are plenty of people out there willing to listen
to your "problems" (never offer solutions), tell you that you are
always right(never ever telling you that you are the one that is acting
stupid or that maybe you shouldn't do this or that), listen to how all
of these people have "hurt you" and sit there and agree how awful they
are (never saying that maybe you were wrong or that they can see the
other persons point of view), and encourage you to do more foolish and outrageous
things that will only hurt you in the long run. Why? Maybe their cable
is off or they are just as bored and manipulative as you are. You know
what they say, birds of a feather... I hope that this person reads this
(and I know they will) and thinks twice before they run another person
down or posts another nasty blog that they think will never get back to
the person they are running down (talk about chicken shit). You cant
continually use and abuse people without it karmically coming back on
you. I would think you would realize that. I hope this is the last time
I have to read nasty things about myself (that this person was too
scared to post openly) but I am not getting my hopes up as this cycle
has been going on for years. May this individual needs to turn the
computer off every once in awhile and go play with their kids, go
shopping, go to counseling (hey I know that will never happen), go try
to a museum, or a movie, join a gym, etc. Maybe if they were to get
enough positive things going in their life (and maybe some
antidepressants, hey I admitted I couldn't manage my weight and got
help, it is possible this person could realize that they can't manage
their moods and get help), they wouldn't be so negative towards their
family, "friends", and life in general. Wouldn't it be great to feel
good about life? My life may not be perfect but I have certainly
noticed that when I have a more positive outlook, good things happen,
getting approved for this surgery after years of trying, getting a
raise at work, moving into our new house, getting my dream car, etc.
Oh, well, I am probably talking to a brick wall, but at least I tried,
at even though what I have said maybe hurtful, at least I am honest. I could have said nothing and kept on reading what was provided to me and kept being a part of the negative cycle but I am through with negative and deciteful people, otherwise this person would still be my friend and none of this would be happening, but I am honest and don't feel the need to "HIDE" my feelings and opinions. I
don't forgive this person, and I probably never will unless their life
does a 360 and I don't ever see that happening, it's too much work for
this person. Besides they seem comfortable in their negativity. Maybe
it is fitting that after all of these years of being so nosey and trying to keep tabs on everyone elses business, that someone is airing this persons and having a great time dong it too from the sound of things.
Well, I found out what I wanted to know, funny title to your latest entry by the way. Can't stop laughing at your stupididy.

I could gloat but i want to believe I am better than that..maybe not Ha Ha!

Entry for November 07, 2006
To all My Cyber friends



Hi I am writing this today to see if anyone can help me and My Family. We live in Colorado Springs, CO. Things here have not been great for my Family. My son had a terrible accident and my husband and I both lost our Jobs. We are living Day to Day. We want to move back HOME to North Carolina to be with our Family and Friends. We would love to Be HOME for Christmas. As you can understand this will take a bit of money. Which we do not have. So I am putting this out there. There is a Link to our paypal. If anyone would like to help My Family and send us home for Christmas. Please donate what you can. This means the world to us!


http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Eqi67cc3dLSYCenz4Fl1R67fMaN8?p=156

Thanks So Much Just for Reading this. God Bless To all



Kisses Marie

When people over rate their cleverness

It is sad that some people are so bored in their own life that they will do anything to distract themselves from the problems and issues that they should be addressing within their own families and psyche by trying to get information about other individuals and their lives. Resorting to the most petty of means necessary all the while over estimating either their own cleverness or the other persons level of trust. It is sad to when someone is so obsessed with an individual that has made it more than abundantly clear to the whole world (you would think that would be enough to dissuade any further contact from them but, no) that they have no desire to have anything to do with them and want to be as disassociated from them as possible. I know I am not that interesting, but then again, you are reading aren't you so who knows. Ha Ha!
Enough on the negativity already, on to the good things!
Husband and I have already been to 3 baby related classes. We preregistered for our delivery and even filled out the preliminary birth certificate! Can you believe that you can do that? I guess it is open to changes especially if the sex is different that the ultrasounds predict. We have moved our home office out of the soon to be nursery and picked up MORE baby furniture last night after I got off work. Who knew a baby required so much furniture! We tried to pick items that will grow with our child so the investment doesn't seem so bad. There is still so much left to buy however but I am working some extra shifts so that helps some.
It is so overwhelming to realize that your life is forever changed, that from now on you can't just do what you want that you have to think about this little human being before you think about yourself. To have someone so utterly dependent on you for everything is a little frightening. To know your actions whether they are good ones or selfish ones will impact this persons whole life in ways you can't even imagine. To know that they will grow up and have their own opinions and experiences and effect on our world and that all of that will be influenced by you is such responsibility. We all want the best for our children. Okay, at least most of us do and I know most of us make daily decisions (muchless major life decisions) with a thought as to their effect on our children first. Heck I have been doing that with my cats for years although I really don't have to worry about one of my cats getting preg. at 15, dropping out of school, or deciding to never speak to me ever again. I do try to provide even my cats with the a safe and secure home, one where there will always be plenty of food and where they never have to worry that they might be dumped off with someone because I can't pay the house payment. I see no reason that a child deserves any less but infact so much more. My husband and I have been talking a lot about our childhoods through my preg. (both the good and the bad) and how we can improve on them and incorporate the things that worked as well as try not to include the things that didn't. I think we have both learned a lot about each other which is a nice bonus too and luckily we are able to agree on most of the major issues we has discussed so far. I am sure there will be disagreements but I think we are both mature enough to talk through them and compromise. I am both excited and frightened about this new phase of my life but I think I have lots of support from knowledgeable and caring people in my life, and a more than supportive mate so that helps a lot.

Can you send me the link to your blog? Carmina doesn't want me to see it and I would like to know why she doesn't want me to see it.


Kathe
To kathe
Re: Blog
Have u seen her swingers blog? I can only assume that you prob. Haven't and that is why she doesn't want you to read mine as I took excerpts from her swingers blog and posted them in response to messages she was posting on my blog. I found her blog by going to yahoo and searching for her user name gemomni74. She mentioned me several times on it even though I had stopped all contact with her in october. I was very offended by some of the things she was saying and the dramatic, "I've been such a good friend to her yet she has never done anything for me" tone of it all that I posted a link to my blog (as a comment) on her swingers blog and posted 2 of her last mean emails to me on my blog so that these new "friends" of hers could see just how "there for me" carmina always was. She erased the link of course and proceeded to write in her blog how I made up lies about her on my blog when the only thing I had posted that mentioned her at all were the two emails from her, no comments or anything from me. The worst part was that she kept making posts on her swingers blog saying that I wouldn't leave her alone, so I posted my email to you the one where I told you that I wanted to keep in contact with andrea but had no intention of continuing my relationship with carmina and why. So she posted a big message about how she had tried to be my friend etc, etc and made it sound like I she was having to end our relationship, etc, etc so I copied that and a pretty mean post about the swinger parties they go to on my blog and wrote, good luck with your new friends. And put a link to my blog as a comment on her blog because she was saying that I should feel free to post my side of this, etc etc on her blog but even though I had not written one thing about all of this in my blog other that posting her own emails and the one I wrote to you in oct, she deleated the link and continued to post on her blog like I wouldn't respond to her on her own blog but was telling lies about her on my blog (but wouldn't leave the comment with the link to my blog or supply a link to my blog herself) So long drawn out drama, excuse filled story...exactly what I hope to not have in my life anymore hence my ending of my relationship with carmina in the first place, I finally responded on my blog and let all of my feelings and beliefs and opinions about some of the worst of what I have witness during my relationship with carmina come spilling forth. What was sad is what I wrote was only the tip of the iceburg because I honestly don't think she could handle hearing all of it and as much as I would like to believe that she might actually admit that what I wrote is true and start to see the destructive patterns in her life and maybe be motivated to try to change them, ...I know the odds of her actually doing so are almost nonexistant so I only put what directly related to me and what finally drove me to end our relationship. Even though what I wrote was ment to upset her enough to get her to leave me alone, I really didn't want to hurt her, shock her into seeing some facts about her life and maybe quit pretending that all of the problems were caused by others, maybe. I really believe that I was being honest 100% in what I wrote kathe and that is what matters most to me.I could tell you some of the unflattering things she wrote about in her swingers blog that impact you directly but that is not my business and I don't want to get involved in a childish game of he said, she said which is exactly the kind of thing carmina always tries to start. I actually don't want to be involved with anything that has anything to do with carmina anymore, which is sad because from reading her own blog, I have to admit to myself that if I met her today, the person she has become and the life she is leading, I would want nothing to do with her. I read my emails from my other friends and what they are doing in their lives and realize that carmina isn't even in the same stratosphere as them, I don't mean just finacially like carmina will assume, but I mean in maturity, stability, and most importantly in reaching their goals, heck by even having realistic goals and by actually working on plans and actively taking the steps to make those goals a reality, most of my other friends have left carmina emotionally and lifestyle wise back in junior high. I have know most of these people since high school and a few since grade school and again even though carmina will want to believe that they have all had much better childhoods, opportunities, and support systems than she had, she would be wrong in may cases. Almost everyone I know has had to overcome major roadblocks in their life and had people in their lives that tried to sabotage them at one point or throughout it all. Carmina may want to belive that she is the only victim in this world but the only difference between her and the millions of successful people out there is that they were will to do the work that it took to succeed and if they found they were unable to or didn't know what to do, they got help. That help could be education, mental health, physical, or even finacial but they got it and in most cases had to EARN that help, it wasn't just handed to them like carmina wants to belive. Heck carmina tells people that everything was handed to me but she forgets to tell them that I worked 2 jobs most of my life, that I worked full time through every degree I have ever earned, including nursing school and how I worked 6 days a week at saint anthonys for almost 6 years to buy the furniture, etc that I have now. She also doesn't think about how I am having to work extra shifts while preg. So I can buy baby supplies and have enough saved up to even be able to afford to take any sort of maternity leave. I don't sit and dwell on these things, I am too busy living my life and working to better my life to sit immobile and feel sorry for myself. I also feel I have wasted too much time on this whole carmina mess and I really hope this is the end of it. I did want to explain myself to you as I am sure you have been hearing her spin doctored version of what really went on for months. I think she has hidden her blog from view now but I will send you a link to my blog which has a link to her page and friends list where you will find kris's blog also. I do hope that you and andrea are doing well and know that I have no anger towards either of you. I must say again, and I know after u see what carminas new lifestyle entails, you will understand why I am so happy that andrea has u in her life as a role model and support system. I will say that I hope you strongly reconsider things before u send her back to carmina this summer as she was saying that was the plan on her blog.I also must forwarn you that I will prob post this on my blog but you knew that already.Anna

it is sad to be right sometimes

patterns repeat and the cycle continues
this is a post from one of Carmina's "friends" in N. C. I wonder if this woman was able to read my blog or only heard Carmina's version on why I ended our "friendship". I feel bad for these people but even worse for Zane and as my husband says for us if Carmina and family really are headed back this way. I really was hoping my message to Carmina in the previous post would have some effect, especially the part where I begged her to get help and pleaded with her not to do this to another "friend", I see now that again, I am totally and 100% justified in ending my relationship with her as she hasn't and doesn't sound like she will ever change. Sad!
February 23, 2006- Crybaby huh?
As everyone knows, we had an issue recently with some people whom we thought were friends. Joe and I are very easy to get along with and generally overly-trusting people. This always seems to bite us in the butt. Since some of you knew the people we are talking about, we haven't posted any nasty blogs. Since they have, I decided to respond to them on my own page so that they couldnt delete any comments I had to say about them. Warning: this is gonna get ugly. So stop reading now if you dont want to know any more.A couple we met a few months ago, we really liked. We overlooked some of their flaws and hung out with them quite a bit. Even welcomed them into our "inner circle" group of swingers. When we learned they were moving to Colorado we were sad to see them go, but we had no problems at that point. We planned a Going away party for this Sat. We helped them move furniture and let them store some in our garage. We even found a temporary home for one of their dogs while they stayed with some other friends. So imagine our surprise last weekend when another couple we know dropped by the house where they were staying with the other couple we have known almost a year, and the entire place was empty?I understand moving from your rental home and leaving it so dirty the landlord will have to probably replace the floors in every room. (Seriously it looks like squatters loved there) I understand running from the law, your bills, never returning library books, not returning your cable box..etc. Those are personal choices that I DO NOT agree with but didnt really care about. What I do care about is leaving and not telling your friends. Then the other couple they were staying with MOVED WITH THEM! You think they called anyone and let them know? What about the party we were planning? Guess friendship means nothing to you that you dont feel you even had to say goodbye before you moved across the country. Now, having said that...I am a very peaceful person. Never had problems with anyone Ive met in life. My husband is the greatest guy I could ever ask for and we are by no means perfect.
HOWEVER, we dont run like cowards, telling everyone it was the best for our family to skip town. How about all the bill collectors that are looking for you? They provide services so that you will pay them, they arent charities. The landlord is going to have to hire a cleaning service and trash dumpster to clean up your rental house.
Furthermore, I will respond to the blog entry from Carm. Don't FUCK with my husband.
Her blog": (my responses are in red)Can we say over reaction? omg i had no idea that the people we know are such spazzes. let me outline a few things for you guys, we moved in hopes of making a better life for our famillys, we did it in secret cause we figured there would be some reprecussions and drama none of us wanted to deal with i, (gee i wonder why we would have thought there might be bad reactions?) This means, they knew we would be pissed because they dumped their dog on us. Even though they "promised" us they were taking him with them and would pick him up before they left. everyone needs to stop it. in response to whoever put the stupid comment up on joes blog that i shouldnt just toss my pets away cause i am tired and i should act like a responsible adult, may kiss my ass, there is no way i am going to sit in north carolina in a hotel looking for a home for a dog i had less than a month, not when it would affect my famillys welbeing. that is really key here, i like my friends but i love my familly, and anyone who cant understand that is a complete moron. Dogs arent throw away items. We are animal lovers and of course you wouldnt care about him being abandoned. You also wouldnt understand responsibility but I already knew that. the veiled thereats are messed up and show the absolute level of stupidity in the whole thing. the nasty calls to uninvolved people is also not right, i mean would you all like it if i called up your moms and discussed the contents of the partys? prolly not, calling my mother in law was low and uncalled for, We called the only number in colorado we had for someone in attempts of finding out if u guys were really there. Since nobody told us what the hell was going on, we had no clue where u were or why Dave and Marie disappeared too. By the way, I will give you my mom and Joes mom's numbers so that you can call them. They know ALL about the parties. calling that wretched bitch keri and informing her as to d&m whereabouts was also low and stupid. and why????????? cause your crybaby ass is mad over no one saying goodbye and because of a 30$ debt and a dog you ought to take to the fricking pound and have done with as a normal adult would do, and as i actually plannned to do. We were played like fools, we trusted everyone and they treat us like this. We only heard one side of the story from the relationship they had with Kari. She knew they were planning to move before we even called her. Aparantly a kid in school told them one of the kids were asking about withdraw procedures. (over a month ago) Also we are adults and can talk to whomever we choose. The debit and the dog issue we honestly never expected you to fulfill. i hate that good people got hurt but the more i go along with this the less i am sad about others cause true friends ( a phrase that keeps being bandied about like "true friends" is the ultimate commitment and be all end all of importance, taking precedence over familly) anyway true friends would look at the fact that here we can all make money not just the guys and here our kids can have things and our house can be decent and not a pos slummy dump. YOU CHOSE TO KEEP YOUR HOUSE A SLUMMY DUMP. Cleaning the house is what makes it nice. Obviously something you dont do. I work 70 hours a week and manage to keep my house somewhat clean. There is no excuse for general laziness. Want me to post photos how the house looked after you guys moved? I dont think so. We know who will do all the cleaning in the new house and it certainly isnt you. Your kids will have a better life if you teach them some responsibility. RETURNING library books, not distroying everything they touch, parents who work to pay all their bills and dont hide from the law. (Kris did work very hard and Im not saying anything bad about that.) so for those of you who have been understanding and seem to get it i love ya and appreciate the adult manner in which you have taken this, and for the others why dont you get some help, and look at the foul ass way you are acting and try to decide what it is that was done to you, and maybe if you do that you will see why you werent trustworthy enough to be told what was up before the move.
We were trustworthy enough to be friends with you, brought you medicine when you were sick, shared our friends with you, so much more. SO WHY? So you could stab us in the back. Joe is the most wonderful man in this world. He was very hurt by all this and Im tired of standing back and being a doormat for everyone. I know everyone will want to comment and post blogs filled with lies, etc. DONT CARE. If you dont like what you are reading. FUCK OFF AND LEAVE US ALONE.
Comments(2 total)
Sexyba... Offline
I called Kris's mom Kitty who was VERY polite. She even offered to contact some animal rescues for me. I told her I understand she has no control over what her family does and all I'm asking is help placing the dog. She said OK. I will say even thought I'm sure he does not like me now, Kris has Always been polite to me and my family and I showed due respect to his. WE ARE DONE WITH THIS ISSUE. Live your lives in peace and we will to.
Thursday February 23, 2006 - 07:44am (EST)
inked_... Offline
Wow it's sounds like you guys got used and abused, I am sorry that happend. And granted I don't know all that went on, but I have a pretty good idea from shelly's blog, but anyone who just up and leaves there pets...well i understand things come up but the "adult" thing to do would be call the pound and have them come pick the animal up before you leave town, or hell call from your new city. As far as debts go, well I will be the first to tell ya, If I had all the money people owed me back I could retire. It's very sad that you two got taken advantage of. You are such great people. And whats even sadder about this whole mess, is that you seem like you would do anything in the world for your close friends and the next time one of your friends need something, you may reflect back on this bad time, and decide you don't want the hassle. And I wouldn't blame you at all, I guess that old saying is true, when you play with fire you'r apt to be burned. Not that you were aware that this situation was fire, but it was just an analogy lol.

proof that I did the right thing all along

After much deliberation (I am talking months), as I had discussed ending or at least taking a break from my relationship with Carmina with Kathe before Andrea even went out to live with her the first time but Kathe reminded me that Carmina would never permit me to have any contact with Andrea as long as she was living with her and she knew that was important to me as I truly care about Andrea (heck I have known her all of her life) as it turns out Carmina was just that petty and did indeed write me a nasty email telling me that she wouldn't allow Andrea to receive any emails from me while she was living in her house even though she admitted in that same nasty e-mail that I had never once written anything personal much less anything about Carmina.
This was in striking contrast to all of the e-mails that I received from everyone of her email accounts (including her husbands) making me have to block each account on my instant messenger, home email, work email, and phone email. But I never responded to any of them, because I knew that was what she wanted as I have seen her do this to friend after friend during the years I have known her. She even went so far as to send me nasty messages through her Netflix account in the form of recommendations! Still I refused to take the bait. In fact I only wrote Kathe to tell her what had happened so she could explain to Andrea that I still cared about her (that email is posted also) because I didn't want her to think I had stopped wanting to have any contact with her or that anything was her fault.
Carmina still kept writing my mother and IMing her when ever she logged on however. She tried to write my mother for information acting as if she was concerned about me. When Carmina started all of this up again, she started trying to IM my mother about it. My mother whose painfilled house bound days where her only escape is the computer that my husband and I bought her. My mother who, for your information Carmina has less than 5 years to live (if you were such a concerned caring friend you would know that), told me this week that she needed me to show her how to log in as invisible on her yahoo beacuse she can't get on her computer anymore with out your iming her about this! If I am angry at Carmina for anything, it is that. How dare you be so selfish and self absorbed to try to involve my DYING mother in your soap opera!!!!!
When I started getting im's again from you (trying to get me to accept you back on my network) and noticed you were making comments on my blog, I knew in my heart that someone had pissed you off and hurt you in your new swingers club so you thought you could write me and Anna would gladly accept and sit and listen to YOUR version of how these people (that I don't even nor will I ever know so how can I know the whole story) had done you so wrong. Now if what you say in your blog is so true about me that I was never there for you, why did you wait until THAT DAY (you know the blog that I posted from your swinger blog that you have since deleted, about how these people were backstabbers and talked trash about you, etc ,etc but how you had secrets on them, etc) to try to contact me again so ardently?
It saddened me to find that blog Carmina because as much as I knew in my heart I was right, I truly did want to be wrong about it. "If someone plays with someone and another person gets upset it makes for a uncomfortabe time all the way around. im just tired of it." "but im not going to want to play and see carm not haveing fun because it not fair to her so i dont think im going to go to anymore partys and we might only play in pairs or select 3 cpls settings". What was worse was after reading your blog and Kris's I see all of the reasons that I had (and I know you don't believe this but it is true) for not talking to you anymore were still there and some were even worse than before. It was only then that I posted your cruel email to me on this blog and my letter to Kathe explaining why I wasn't writing to Andrea (notice the date on that letter too as it was months ago). I was hoping that you would take the hint and stop trying to contact me but you wouldn't let it go! I then posted YOUR OWN WORDS as you admit word for word from your swinger blog and your snarky comments on my blog about how you had found new friends so you would see that I knew the real reason you were trying to cantact me. That I had read that blog. Again, it didn't work and you deleted that entry off your blog (after it had been up there almost a week Carmina get real), and started running me down in your blog something until this entry now, I had NEVER done, check my old posts (I HAVE NEVER DELETED ANY OF MINE), the only time you were even mentioned was during the holiday post where I was feeling sad about all of the hard times everyone I knew was having during this holiday and even then I only said that I had to stop talking to you because you were saying hurtful things about the people I cared about. I NEVER went into your life, your deeds , or my feelings about YOU! As I read through your posts I found several posts mentioning me. You even admit that you talk to these "friends" about me. These people don't know me from jane, but they are beginning to know you as that entry you erased pointed out.
I was firmly of the mind to not talk to you AT ALL perhaps ever again as I told Kathe and I CERTAINLY didn't want to bring up your short comings and misdeads to these people that I don't even know and will never know. I know from your actions that all of that is still a very big part of your personality so I figure these people (unless they are bored and drama queens like yourself, or are really stupid) will figure these things about you in time and on there own without any help from me and at that time they will decide if it is something they can accept in you or not and act accordingly.
BUT>>>again you won't let it go. You are telling and posting flat out lies about me Carmina and you know it is true so I am warning you, you are only going to be hurt if you read further...
Do these people know that when you were squaters in those condemed apts that I begged my friends several times to take me there to bring you and your family food as I didn't have a car of my own? (funny you guys always had cigs and Kris always had pot even when your children didn't have food). "That bout covers it tonite, i have eaten my grits and syrup, which is all there was to eat"
Do they know how I put my reputaion and a friendship with the lab manager at Clinical Laboratories of Colorado (which later became Quest) on the line when I BEGGED for him to hire you even though you had NO job history or references. How I had to tell him that you and your family had been in and out of homeless shelters 3 or 4 times (the last time on Christmas) in order for him to hire you? Do they know you had never had a decent job before that ? That even when you worked for the home health agency they fired you several times and only called you back because, by your own admission they were desperate?
Do they know how many times you have guilted me into lying for apartments and rental properties after you had been evicted or moved out from yet another place owing back rent and damages? (maybe they do as you have probably asked a few of them to lie for you this time around) "not sure how i am gonna handle all this on top of moving" "thursday pop inspection by the landlord."
Do they know that the last time we stopped speaking was when you told me that Andrea had been raped and molested for what the 2nd or 3rd time while living with you (funny nothing like this never happens when she lives with kathe) and you told her NOT TO TELL ANYONE!!! (she was what 7-8 years old!) because you told me you couldn't tell the police because you were already on probation for your house being so filthy that your landlord reported you to social services causing you to loose both kids and being charged with a felony child abuse charge. Did you tell them that it was only a short time after she was raped that time that she tried to hang herself at the fourth of july party where your husband was arrested because he was so drunk and stoned? That you had to hire a lawyer and due to the fact that they had messed up by not giving him a drug test at the scene, that was the only way you got it dropped. Did you tell them that Andrea was getting A's in school till she went to live with you? Did you tell them that your solution to her issues with self esteem and boys was to try to put her on birthcontrol (when she was 11 years old) instead of trying to get her counceling first even after I told you about all of the FREE counceling available you had the nerve to say that it worked for you. Did it now? You still have issues where all you think you have of value is your sexual skills. Don't you want Andrea to know that men can be her friends and that they should RESPECT her as well as she should RESPECT herself, that she has so much more to offer than just her body? (something you still haven't learned).
As for all of the ugly things you said about my husband. Kris did some horrible things during the course of your relationship but the only time I told you to leave him is when he pushed you out that window and was (by your own admission) drugged out of his mind constantly. I even advised you to go to him in North Carolina if you wanted your marriage to continue when you were out here considering sleeping with his brother, your mothers druggie friends, and even a coworker or two. Hell even after you moved out there, when you came back to visit you tried to get your married friend Mike to sleep with you at my house after you had begged me to go get you from your mothers drug dealing shack in the mountains after I had worked a 12 hour night shift the night before and had not slept at all, so "we could spend time together" and all you wanted was a ride and a place to seduce Mike.
You bragged when Kris left and even a few months after he was gone that he couldn't make it without you. That he was so stupid (remember you told my husband and I that you hadn't had an intellegent conversation since you married him) that he would never be able to find an apt or be able to turn the utilities on without you. But he did and boy did that scare you. It scared you even more when his mother was able to get him to stop the drugs something you NEVER tried to encourage during your whole relationship. And when he told you that, that made you even madder and you took care of that didn't you, told them they were cult like and brainwashing him. You couldn't stand for anyone else to have any influence over him unless it was you. You wanted him impaired as it keeps him weak which is what your self esteem tells you he must remain otherwise he would leave you. I don't think that is true as I tried to tell you and even when you were having the worst times with Kris I tried to tell you that and encourage you to go to counceling with him. You admitted to me that you thought it would end your relationship. Your are the same person emotionally I met in 1993, thirteen years and you haven't grown or matured at all but you know something, as much as Kris and I may believe differently about life and issues, I have to give him credit, as I told Kathe in that letter, Kris has grown. WHY CAN'T YOU?
I never called him names and made jokes about him like you always have EVERY man I have ever been with in the time I have known you? (Hell you make fun of Kris enough yourself no one else has too) That yells insecurity to me. The one time you did come up in couples counceling the therapist said, "Carmina does this because she is jealous, that I have always had the educational, career, finacial, and social sucess and all you felt you had that I didn't was a husband and children so you felt treatened when I got those too. I told her that I never though of it as who has more or better, and she said it is pretty obvious that Carmina does because it makes her feel insecure". There you go you finally know the whole extent of your involvement in our couples therapy. Which has worked wonders by the way but you don't want to hear that.
"Yes she was "there for me"but it always came with a price. This is an example of Carmina's version of BEING THERE;
"i am sure you know if you took him back, no matter what he did or what he said that you have given him carte blanche. he is now aware that as soon as you get bummed that he is gone you will cave in on the whole thing, and that if he hasnt cheated yet he can now do so without any real consequences for his deplorable actions. you saw, you listened to me read the adds, this is an old story, and 90% of those guys online were married. i personally dont care what he does or what you do, if you wish to conduct an open marriage (altho i bet you dont get to be open too) that is all on you, and i wont judge you on it, but you better hope that he is using condoms cause if he isnt you will catch something. if your lucky the worst you will get is the humiliation of going in and telling your doc that your beloved husband gave you the clap, if not so lucky...well i am not a great nurse but i have sat with friends dying of aids before (all gay men except one drug iv user woman)and i suppose i care enough to sit with you too."
I don't consider letters like that to be supportive, I take them for what they really are, scare tactics to get me to do what you want so you can feel better about yourself. Carmina never let me CRY on her shoulder, she was always malicious and cruel when I reached out for help. Like she said about her own mother, she knew better than to call her for sympathy because she knew she wouldn't get any, Carmina was always the same way to me. And worst of all she would pry me for every detail she could when I was at my most upset and hurting all the while acting like she needed to know in order to make me feel better (it was partly my fault for falling for the same evil tactics over and over because I wanted to believe she cared) and then even years after things had been worked out, she would bring up those details again and taunt me with them. Is that a supportive friend? She would try to tell me something to cause me doubt time I talked to her, he's cheating (hell Kris did cheat on her but when she was snooping on the computer last year and found he had been in contact with an old girlfriend, I told her that it sounded like they were only friends and that she lived far away so I didn't see what there was to worry about), he's using you for your money and going to leave you when he starts making his own (hell she supported Kris and Zane through the job I got her a Quest and I never said that to her and now who is supporting her, something she always said he wasn't able to do), his mother is trying to get rid of you so they can live in the house you are paying for and throw you out (his mother is now in treatment for her mental illness and on medication and her life is starting to turn around )
So while you invite these people that I don't even know (I know you find it hard to believe but I haven't mentioned you to anyone, even my husband , in months because honestly my mood and outlook on life were so much better without your constant dramas and feeding into my fears that I didn't even think of you other than Christmas time when I was mailing out presents and I knew I wouldn't be mailing yours) to your little soap opera of ruining any shread of friendship there was left and any hope there was of an type of relationship in the future.
Has it been good fun for you? Livended up your boring jobless days where you sleep and procrastinate about even simple things like keeping your house decent enough so you don't have to worry about social services or the landlord seeing it? If these people have gone to your house more than once, they know what I am talking about.
You posted on your blog that you wanted people to be able to see both sides so I posted a link to this blog which you promptly erased (even though I had only posted your own emails to me on it). Once again like with Kris, you are so insecure that you are afraid for these people to see any other version that the one you are spinning for them. Like I warned you when you told me you were going to start swinging, I don't care who or what you are sleeping with as long as it makes you happy and doesn't hurt your children (speaking of who is watching Zane, now that Andrea is gone, when you go to these parties? Kris's mother? another woman that you ran down constantly and called a bitch over and over even after she let you live with her, borrow money, and food?), but I don't think yourself esteem and insecurity are strong enough to handle it and as I can see from your posts, I was right. I don't know all of the details of what happened and I am sure I wouldn't even if I had taken your bait and written you back to hear your version of what went on, but I know that it reaks of jealousy on your part.
I have 2 wishes for the outcome of this letter,
1. you will realize even though what I have written will make you mad and even hurt you that it is true and even though I am far from the perfect friend and far from the most emotionally mature person I can be, I have grown a lot since I have known you and am working constantly to grow even more, while you haven't and your life hasn't either. all off the things that you complained about since the day I met you are still true plus some new ones, you haven't (and from the way your blogs read), aren't planning on trying to make any of it any better. You will know in your heart that you are not the blameless victim and will start to wonder why you felt compelled to ruin a friendship of over 13 years. (I didn't start this, you did as you well know, and I resisted responding to you as you also well know)
Carmina maybe if you truly had been working on your negativity and self esteem instead of trying to illicit sympathy from these fast friends you have made with your body, maybe we could have been friends again. Kathe though so and so did my mother. Both told me to take a break from you which is what I was DOING until you tried to stir all of this up again by harrassing me! I hope you will realize that and realize that if I truly had been such a horrible selfish friend to you all of those years, you being as blunt and "honest" as you claim to be, would have ended it LONG AGO! So you know you are fabricating a lot of this, maybe to make yourself sound better or to make you feel better about ruining our friendship, who knows.
I hope that you won't do this to someone else. I hope you will realize that you have serious issues that you need to work on before you can truly be the happy, mature, stable, and loving person that I always wanted to believe was in you but unfortunately never got to surface through all of the anger, self doubt, and jealousy from your childhood and poverty. I hope you will stop being afraid of the stigma of therapy (hell even the self help books on self esteem I got you through the years, you refused to read instead telling me to buy you erotica ) (only emotionally stunted and immature people value sex over their emotional wellbeing )and of facing your issues and work them out. Another good reason for doing so before it is too late; (I spoke to my cousins at the family reunion about my Cousin Cricketts oldest daughter Desi, Desi has moved far away and went to college, graduated, started a career, got married, had two children and hasn't had any contact with Crickett since she left. Crickett has never seen her grandchildren. Desi told my family that she remembered the way she was always treated as the babysitter and maid. How her mother always tried to play down any sexual abuse she suffered when her mother would leave her alone or had no idea where she was, physical abuse (like shoving or throwing books and shoes when her mother was in foul moods or didn't want to be bothered(sound familiar)), and all of the verbal insults through the years (everytime she called her stupid, treated her other children better because resented Desi for her jerk of a father leaving her and for her ruining her teen years by being born to her when she was 16(again sound familiar) ), and that she could never forgive her mother and as long as her mother was the way she was, she didn't want to have anything to do with her or for her children to ever know her. You yourself tell me you remember all of the abuse and neglect you suffered as a child, heck you still use that as a crutch for your immature and selfish actions, "And hopefully what ever higher power there be will look at me at the end and go easy, and realize that I did the best I could with the tools I had.".
Do you think Andrea is going to forget?
Do you think just because you are her mother she has to put up with any treatment you dish out weather it is good or bad for the rest of her life?
Crickett is 5'2" 350+ pounds and on disability. She has never had a real job, drove away the one good husband she had and has a 14 year old son that is so ADD that he can't even pass the 5th grade but she won't get him meds. She is only 39 years old!) Doesn't that scare you? It should. I know you love Andrea, heck Crickett loved Desi too but she was (and unfortunately still is) to emotionally stunted and depressed to function as a healthy parent. I love Andrea and I for as much as I never, ever, ever want to hear from you again, still care about you enough to not want to see something like that happen to you. GET HELP CARMINA! If you get NOTHING else from all of this, get that message. You could be so much more. you could be so much happier, a better parent, finacially secure, you might have the confidence to dress better, get a real job, go back to school, take better care of your health, stop thinking living in a flithy house is good enough, start trying to pay your taxes, bills , rent, maybe even have a savings so you aren't getting your phone, internet, or other utilities cut off all of the time, stop burning bridges with landloards (by allowing yourself to get so far behind on the rent you either get evicted or have to sneak off with no intention of ever paying it, making it impossible to get a decent apt or rental or hell any credit down the line)and jobs by just not showing up to work ever again (so you can't use it a a reference for a better job down the line)heck you would be a better wife and lover, if you just had more self esteem and faced your demons! You are an adult and a parent it is about time you started to act like one! I worked hard to pay my taxes and clear my credit and now we have a house and two new cars. You could do it too! Only your depression and lack of self confidence are holding you back (not Kris like you said for years) You have had 32 years to try to do it on your own and you obviously can't. Considering your childhood that isn't surprising. You owe yourself more than this, you owe your family more than this, you even owe your future and current friends more that this shell of a person that you have become. Please even if you hate me and think I am full of rubbish, know in your heart that I speak the truth about this.
2. never ever contact me of my ill mother again. please LET this go. let ME go. if I am such a selfish and awful friend it should be freeing for you to never have to speak to me again. Take up watching the soaps for your excitement, read the "National Enquirer" but please let me live my life in peace. work on and worry about your own life, stop trying to get information and contact from or about me. Never go to this blog again. It was never ment for you and had nothing about you in it except half a sentence!(unlike your blog), stop talking about me, tell people that it upsets you or makes you to angry what ever and they (if they are truly caring people) will stop asking you about it. I will be just fine without you and I have no doubt your life will continue on it's current distructive path without me. I will publish one more link to this blog on yours (so you can delete it as soon as you find it
"Carmin... Offline everyone is already assessed of the contents of your blog. tag your move" ) because you lied on your blog and told people that you wanted them to be able to see both sides. "feel free to post both sides of this, i mean lets be fair right everyone knows there are two sides to this and i have been nice enough to not post mine, because an arguement and even the end of a friendship is not enough motivation for me to ruin someones day. let alone post they types of stuff that has been posted so far."
To quote you, "take care of yourselves and dont burn those bridges unless u are sure u aint crossing back later."
Carmina's post on my blog (a very different tone from what she has been posting on her blog)
Oh well I tried
I am very sad, and it is very hard to let go of a friend, I am sad that things could not be worked out. I know you are as nosy as me and will check here and I am in no way gonna post a bunch of emails from before or start pointing fingers, I know I was wrong and I know you were wrong. I have started the process of deleting all the old emails all the good ones as well as the bad, cause the only way for me to drop stuff is to not be reminded. My own dumbass for being nosy started this stuff up to begin with. Like I said to someone the other day if u dig for info that you think may hurt you, you are likely to get it. So another day begins and the curtain falls on this one. I mistakenly made the assumption due to the xmas blog that altho the info was unflattering about me on that blog that it seemed as tho there was some hope of working things out maybe just the phrasing. I am not bored I am very busy altho never as busy as you, I am not lonely altho when your husband works nights you are always a bit lonely. I have had a lot of time for introspection over the last few years, the 6 months I lived alone with Zane in the cabin were great for me cause I realized I didn't have to have a man, and that tho things had been rough, I was going to Kris out here in the south because I wanted to not cause I had to, and really barring the occasional argument about money or stupid crap our relationship is stronger than it ever was. I have learned that drama is fun and fine but not a life and have realized I am so tired of not having a life. It is unfortunate that we cannot continue our friendship but I can live with that too. I also have realized a thing about friends if I look I will find them maybe not lifelong call in the middle of the night to cry on their shoulder friends but pals I can have dinner with and just talk about the dumb stuff I did today or our kids or whatever. And maybe that is best in a way cause with pals you don't have a history and you don't have all the deep dark secrets hanging constantly over your head, you just have someone you can hang out with and enjoy their company and know that they enjoy yours. So there ya go it is purged and over and I will mourn it as tho it is dead. It is probably better that way anyway cause it is a new beginning and a learning experience for me as far as what is my business and what isn't and what I should expect and what I shouldn't. I have been arrogant assuming that things were about me and I have made some shitty decisions as far as a parent and have not done well all the time,I also haven't done badly all the time either and where there ae better parents there are worse too. Which is neither here nor there all that matters is that at the end of the day I can look at myself in the mirror and know I am trying my best to do what is right, and some days I can and some I cant. And hopefully what ever higher power there be will look at me at the end and go easy, and realize that I did the best I could with the tools I had. I truly am sorry you have so much anger towards me and I wish that things were different. I wish there was a better form for me to say these things and that I could have made things better. I hope you have the best life you can and that everything works out for you and that things go as you plan and that if not you have the help and support to make it through the bad times. I think that is all I have to say except that perhaps you are judging me a bit harshly and we all say stuff in anger that we shouldn't and that I really didn't get any pleasure from your misfortunes, the hard times you had upset me as the you were family and I wished with all my heart that things could have been different for you.

Dedication for Carmina, "I have friends in low places"

Carmina's message on my blog;
I also have realized a thing about friends if I look I will find them maybe not lifelong call in the middle of the night to cry on their shoulder friends but pals I can have dinner with and just talk about the dumb stuff I did today or our kids or whatever. And maybe that is best in a way cause with pals you don't have a history and you don't have all the deep dark secrets hanging constantly over your head, you just have someone you can hang out with and enjoy their company and know that they enjoy yours.

from carmina's blog @

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-EWBYuK82fqs04WHy1KkX01w-?p=84
quick unauthorized blog to all my chums. First off just as an fyi i know ppl have talked all kinds of bullcrap about me and mine and probably i have barely scratched the surface. I learend a long time ago tho that if u look for stuff u feel may come off as unflattering you will likely find it. So what no biggie and a great big whatever to those who have said stuff. i know who cares and who dosent and am hearing a bunch of stuff hasnt changed my feelings much, i already knew one person ran her life on an emotional basis and i had to be careful not to upset the delicate balance, i already knew one of the guys was acting like i was their cuppa tea and i wasnt, i already knew one lovely lady smiled when she talked to me and couldnt wait till i left the room to tear me up to everyone, so really nothigs changed, except that i have spent all weekend explaining what the heck went wrong to the emotional one and have spent the weekend with lots of irritation and dissatisfaction. A great big not worth it there. the one person who really stirred up a bunch of crap is being very very quiet...you know who u are so all the rest of u who keep wondering if its you...no its not she knows who she is. (to quick spell it out further just in case it aint you reese) and again no big deal, go on take a preconcieved notion of how i am stamp it in stone in your head and stick with it till the cows come home, cause i have a secret and nice secret...all i will say is adieu my friends see ya soon and i will keep in touch, as for the rest have yourselves a little party and laugh it up, hell post a big pic of me dressed up as a logger and play pin the penis on carm, cause i wont be here to care. have a good week, take care of yourselves and dont burn those bridges unless u are sure u aint crossing back later.
love ya guys this will be my last blog for awhile i believe but my email and im works so feel free to drop me a line.
TTFN

Yep, I am nosey, and resourceful. Enjoy those new pals.

more on carmina

Anna,

I would tell you this and I would tell Carmina the same thing. There is no rule that says you have to discuss anything with anyone. I am sorry that Carmina has not been there for you and maybe this is the break you need, to branch out and find friends you can coffee with, going shopping with, etc. What Carmina feels about your husband or your life has absolutely no bearing on you, it is your life. And if it brings you pain, then you must step away for your own well being.

You can contact Andrea here, I have no problem with that and I don't think Carm would either if you were talking to her. I know she felt you were going around her and being sneaky or just a brat to make her mad. But here we work under my rules not Carm's. It makes Andrea very uncomfortable to have to defend her family and I try to stay away from that. She didn't make the family what it is and she shouldn't have to explain it, so that would be the only area I would ask you to stay away from.

As to asking me to be in the middle, I did not think you were asking me anything, but I wanted you to know my position. I always try to be upfront and truthful. It keeps things on the up and up and simple.

Andrea and I will be leaving for California on December 22 and returning January 4. We are taking the train out and spending time with my friends. We are both looking forward to this vacation.

Please stay well and take care of your self. We will do the same.

BTW, when I talked to Carm/Andrea last night, they were having serious computer problems. A friend is coming over today to see if they can fix it. So they will be out of the loop for a while.




----- Original Message -----
From: ANNA GONZALES
To: kathe
Sent: 11/11/2005 3:15:54 AM
Subject: i am not asking you to be in the middle
I am just letting you know so that one day if Andrea asks or wants to know why I stopped having contact with her, you can tell her if you wish to do so.
I know you believe that this will blow over but I am truly done.
I have given this some thought and as much as the decision pains me as I know Carmina needs a friend, I cannot do this anymore. I have tried to be understanding except when I thought Andreas safety and well being were at risk. I realize now that Carmina has never given me that same curtiousy. She seems to enjoy my misfortune which is also hard for me to accept. She doesn't want to hear that my husband is trying or that we are in couples counceling (infact she tried to encourrage me that even going was a mistake). She calls my husband names everytime he is mentioned and makes fun of him, playing on my worst fears and keeping me constantly upset and doubting my choices. I do not do this to her, I do not tell her Kris is cheating (just because he has in the past), I do not tell her he is going to shove her out another window (just because he has in the past), I tell her that I worry about some of his drug and violent history but I belive he has made great improvements and so long as he is her husband, I will respect that and hope that he makes her happy, (and if she isn't happy I tell her that I hope she can find what will make her happy whatever that may be). I never get this support or encouragement from her, I even told her that I was fine with their current "lifestyle" as long as it made her happy (even if I don't agree with it, I still feel it is her choice and I told her to be careful and to be sure she knew the risks, like I thought a good friend should). I want to work on my marriage and my husband does too and Carmina won't accept this. She won't allow me any privacy at all (but then she doesn't allow anyone in her household any privacy either so I don't know why I am surprised), even getting furious when I told her that I couldn't discuss our sessions because I had promised our therapist (not just my husband) not to as that is part of our issue. She automatically assumed that I wasn't telling her because Will didn't want me talking about it to her. Honestly Kathe, Carmina NEVER came up. I told her that we BOTH promised we weren't going to tell ANYONE but she egotistically went into a tirade about how my husband didn't want me talking to her because only she was telling me the truth. That is when I knew Kathe.
I think Carmina is bored and lonely and she is trying to keep her own little soap opera going for some ammusement. I refuse to allow my relationship and my unborn child to be the ant hill that she is pouring salt on just to see us run. I am in the middle of a high risk pregnancy and I cannot be this stressed all of the time. I also don't want to hear how I am doing everything wrong with my pregnancy and my child rearing from mother of the year either. Which was also becoming an issue.
I am only telling you all of this because I hope you see that I did try and that I do still care about Andrea. I am glad that she is going to be living with you again. I think she needs a good role model during her teen years especially, I think even Carmina knows you are better suited for that than she is at this point and I have to give her credit for sending her maid/babysitter back to you.
I am sorry this letter is so angry but I am truly upset and imagine it will take me a very long time to not be this upset. I wish you the best and I hope you and Andrea will be happy. Carmina knows my mothers e-mail and address, as she has been writing her (which is another issue I could ban her from trying to involve my very ill mother in this but I figure my mother is an adult so it is in her power to tell Carmina to stop if she wants to not mine, as Andrea is a child, I do see the difference in the situations even if it doesn't make me happy ( I also never sent Andrea anything personal or mentioning any of this, nor would I), so in the future if Andrea wishes to contact me when she is older, tell her to feel free.
I will not write you about this or mention this again as I don't want to keep this drama going so don't worry.
Good luck to to you and thank you for being there for Andrea,
Anna

carmina's letter

let me clarify for u ok? i have sat here listening toyou bitch about the horrible treatment you recievefrom will for 2 or 3 years now. i am worried, i alsohave been currious what he said to the therapist. ifyou dont want to shera fine you dont have too, but itis rather uncultured to tell me to mind my own damnbisiness and act as tho i am part of your marriagesproblem, and then ask a billion nosy questions aboutmy life. if it is part of your therapy and you feelgood about it, and you guys want to put forth thefeffort good for you it is also not my problem, i havenever made fun of you and have always had your backand intrests in your relationship, an i feel that ihave always been supportive of you. You told me that you hate the fact that when annie isthe subject we always fight, and she acted in a stupidfashion, and is being held on restriction so she cantdo anything stupid again till i get some idea andresourses to figure out what to do, but you come downon my methods, and you act like i am a fool everytimeannie is involved and i am already annoyed, and feellike it is my priveledge to not talk about it if idont want. there is also the fact that kathe told mewhat you and will did while i was there and i have acertain ammount of fear of what lengths you will go tonow, i have blown it off assuming you saw somethingand didnt feel like you could talk to me, and haveeven forgiven, cause i know that at the age annie isat there is lots of conflict. there is stuff thatlooks pretty shitty to people not there, and i admit iwas tired and in a foul assed mood that day and couldsee how it could have been construed as worse than itwas ment, and worse than annie took it her self, iknow i talked to her, and we actually had worked alotof stuff out that next day (for the record i didntfind out all of what you and will did till i had beenhome and was getting ready to move) but altho i washurt that you felt more inclined to do what you didthan talk to me and see what was up, and altho i wassuper mad i got mostly over it, i even gave you achance to tell me yourself and you didnt. inspite ofthat i have been your friend for years, and have agreat deal of caring for you, i was not meaning to ragu about your preg i just wanted tp share what i know,and caution you to be careful. additionslly i thinkpopping up a nasty msg while annie is sitting there sothat she could see the word swingers and ask questionswas just nasty of you, as i pointed out 1 night doesnot a swinger make, and also altho you may be hell onmy moralds yours werent always so perfect either(lauren corneilus, heck my cousin) it is a good thingi talked to annie and told her that i like shelly, andmaybe not in a totally chaste way or it would havemade me furrious which is what you wanted i am sure.in short anna take a pill, your hormones are off youare pregnant, take care of your life, and i will dothe same, cause if the only basis of our friendship isthat we talk trash about each otheres lives then thatis pretty sucky, i hope we can continue to talkwithout the whole judgemental bullshit on both oursides, i am sorry i am skeptical of will but you are alifelong friend and he is busting you down, i hate himcause i care, but will not mention either of ourpersonal lives till you feel like talking about them. I am scared to send this cause it brings the anniemess out in the open, but i feel like if you are myfriend you will see if i didnt care that would havewrecked any chance of me talking to you at all andeveryone from kathe to annie herself is stunned that iam so if you feel like addressing anything else hereyou are welcome to but do me the courtesy of notexpecting me to talk about that right now.C.